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Also, isn't it a great ad for Anthropic itself? One wonders

What is happening? I see multiple outages and CVEs is being reported on HN's front page. I've never seen these many security/incident related posts on HN's front page.

Some combination of reporting bias given concerns about LLM security capabilities and actual new vulnerabilities found with LLM assistance. Even if exploits and outages are unrelated to LLMs, I'm certainly thinking about whether claude could build these things (or if actors already have).

> What is happening?

Slowly at first, and then suddenly. AI assisted anything follows this trend. As capabilities improve, new avenues become "good enough" to automate. Today is security.


i believe a good portion of the cves hitting the front page are moreso because they are ai-related (found partially/in whole by ai) and make for quick upvotes.

In some sense, I wonder if non-open-source is "safer" since LLMs can't mass scan the code for exploits.

Maybe for a while, but there's nothing stopping LLMs from examining disassembler output.

That's significantly more challenging for an LLM (and a human)

I would caution against thinking it's difficult for an LLM. I've used them in raw data file analysis and they are frequently shockingly good at pulling structures and meaning out of seemingly random data. Disassembled binaries already are structured, so pulling code flow out of that is easier. Mixing that with existing disassembly and inspection tooling and an LLM has what is needed to fast track this kind of vulnerability research. Point being, an LLM with the proper tools can potentially follow code flow from disassembled binaries way easier than a human.

I forgot who it was, but someone on YouTube said LLMs already work hooked up to gidra. If true it's only a matter of time once they find similar things in e.g. Windows. I'll wait half a year to a year (think of embargo) and if there still isn't such work for Windows I'll conclude that LLMs have a problem disassembling binaries.

If I was NSA I'd heavily use this feature on my farm in Utah :^)

Security through obscurity

If they don't get scanned, then they also don't get fixed, so if they have the same amount of holes, they will stay vulnerable for longer.

Perhaps it was the prior quiescent period that was the anomaly.

Automated vulnerability discovery via LLM.

Anyone care to share which models and which prompts actually lead to finding these kinds of vulnerabilities? Or the narrowing-down workflow that can get an LLM to discover them? Surely just telling claude "Find all vulnerabilities in this project LOL" isn't enough? I hope?

The Anthropic researchers have said their flow is as simple as:

1. Pick a file to seed as a starting place.

2. Ask the LLM (in an agent harness) to find a vulnerability by starting there.

3. If it claims to have found something, ask another one to create an exploit/verify it/prove it or whatever.

4. If both conclude there is a vuln, then with the latest models you almost certainly found something real.

Just run it against every file in a repo, or select a subset, or have an LLM select files with a simple "what X files look likely to have vulns?".

So basically yes, it is that simple. It's just a matter of having the money to pay for the tokens.


What kind of money are we talking about with regards to the tokens?

Thanks for the reply. Pretty remarkable.

Everyone was talking about how Mythos was overblown marketing, and while it may be, they missed the forest for the trees. Capabilities have been escalating for a year now and we're at the point of widespread impact. I don't suspect we'll see a slowdown for a long time.

I agree. It is not like Mythos or other LLMs are insanely smart/superhuman. Many of these vulnerabilities could be discovered fairly easily by trained human experts as well. The problem is more that it requires an insane amount of attention and time of highly-paid experts to shake out these issues vs. an LLM that never gets tired and can analyze a large amount of code at low cost.

Linus' law was wrong because there were never enough (qualified) eyeballs to check the code. LLMs provide an ample supply of eyeballs (though it's not a benefit to open source, since proprietary developers can use the same LLMs).


Same applies to them being good enough to program, but many are so focused on source code generation that they don't get the whole picture.

Thanks to agents and tool calling, there are now business cases that can be fully described by AI tooling, the next step in microservices, serverless and what not.

Naturally with a much smaller team than what was required previously.


AI is happening.

In each recent case?

AI assistance was explicitly disclosed on yesterday's. Today's has Claude as one of two contributors on this GitHub Pages site at least so it's also very likely.

Agents are capable of finding this kind of stuff now and people are having a field day using them to find high-profile CVEs for fun or profit.


I was promised that ai was just a stochastic parrot

A mix of AI and hybrid warfare.

Yes I think people forget that cyber-war between West and East is very active, with a significant amount of attacks being committed by nation states or state-sponsored groups.

Warfare does not look like releasing neatly documented vulnerability reports to the public.

It's actually the perfect evergreen content to discuss on HN in an age where so much else is AI generated.

I'm not sure it is too unusual to be honest. I feel that we have that type of content from time to time

... there's also a bit of a frequency illusion factor.

I wonder where are the Rust naysayers hiding now

C code is broken - period


I don't like this proposal but engineers should not be shamed for doing their regular jobs. We all do it in some form or the others.

Tell me you build stuff like this without telling me you build stuff like this.

Hey, knock it off. Personal attacks aren’t allowed here.

I don't think so. I think this is a common narrative in Hackernews when layoff news are shared. All the people I talk to in the industry positively confirm a boost in productivity. Its contribution to actual revenue could lag but it is present and confirmed by many.

It has boosted my productivity in my side projects but its nothing I can monetize. Maybe companies have the same problem.

Which public companies that do NOT sell AI have posted that AI has boosted their revenue?

I feel new startups, features and more services coming online would be a good measurement of this amazing productivity boost we're seeing.

Have you noticed a major improvement in every service you pay for ? Like many new features and incredible improvements in user experience and reliability? Because I’ve not really noticed that. Actually, things seem to be offline more than they used to, namely GitHub.

I am definitely more productive at generating lines of code though which definitely gives me the illusion things are mOvInG rEaLly FaSt.


Good luck, I'm sure you will find a great role!

It would be a reasonable deduction for someone who doesn't have the time or interest to understand the internals.

This is insane. I have to move to Codex now.

codex works but code it spits out is still not as clean as opus.

> just a random token generator based on token frequency distributions with no real thought process

I'm not smart enough to reduce LLMs and the entire ai effort into such simple terms but I am smart enough to see the emergence of a new kind of intelligence even when it threatens the very foundations of the industry that I work for.


It's an illusion of intelligence. Just like when a non technical person saw the TV for the first time, he thought these people must be living inside that box.

He didn't know the 40,000 volt electron gun being bombarded on phosphorus constantly leaving the glow for few milliseconds till next pass.

He thought these guys live inside that wooden box there's no other explanation.


Right, but this electron box led to one of the largest (if not the largest) media revolution that has transformed the course of humanity in a frightening way we're still trying to grapple with.

Still saying "LLMs are autocorrect" isn't wrong, but nobody is saying "phones are just electrons and silicon" to diminish their power and influence anymore.


Electron box was reliable. It only depicted exactly the scan lines airwaves or signals ordered it to.

The people controlling what went on the screens were unreliable and nondeterministic. The algorithm on facebook/instagram is nondeterministic and I hope I don't have to convince you of the impact these algorithms have.

As far as I'm concerned, the nondeterminism argument is fruitless


What happens when it's indistinguishable from a human speaker (in any conceivable test that makes sense)? It's like a philosophical zombie - imagine that you can't distinguish it from a human mind, there's no test you can make to say that it is NOT conscious/intelligent. So at some point, I think, it makes no sense to say that it's not intelligent.

The "seems" is NOT equal to "is". The gravity seems like a force to us like magnets are. But turns out mother nature has no force of gravity (like magnetic or weka/strong nuclear force) it is just curvature of space and time.

Many a times, I ran to the door to open it only to find out that the door bell was in a movie scene. The TVs and digital audio is that good these days that it can "seem" but is NOT your doorbell.

Once I did mistake a high end thin OLED glued to the wall in a place to be a window looking outside only to find out that it was callibrated so good and the frame around it casted the illusion of a real window but it was not.

So "seems" is not the same thing as "is".

Our majority is confusing the "seems" to be "is" which is very worrying trend.


It's very easy to say, "well, of course, a thing that looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, is not necessarily a duck." But when you're presented with something indistinguishable from a duck in every way, how do you determine whether it's a duck? You can't just say "well I know it's not a duck". It's dodging the question.

Well. AI doesn't walk or quack like a duck.

Ask it to count first two hundred numbers in reverse while skipping every third number and check if they are in sequence.

Check the car wash examples on YouTube.


If I picked a human off the street and asked them to "count first two hundred numbers in reverse while skipping every third number and check if they are in sequence", I bet most would screw up.

my point is not that current LLMs are sentient, or even that LLMs ever could be. My point is that it's very difficult to come up with a way to test consciousness, and it makes me a bit nervous to see people suggesting that something could never be conscious just because it's technological and not biological.


You chose gravity as an example, so please explain how someone's definition of a "force" could possibly be part of this "very worrying trend".

And this logic flow only proves that no AI is a human intelligence. It doesn't disprove the intelligence part.

Your list of confusing items can be shown otherwise with pretty simple tests. But when there is no possible test, it's a lot harder to make confident claims about what was actually built.

Would you claim that relativity disproves aether theory? Because it doesn't really. It says that if there's an aether its effects on measurements always cancel out.


I think this is a pretty decent test:

An AI Agent Just Destroyed Our Production Data. It Confessed in Writing.

https://x.com/lifeof_jer/status/2048103471019434248

> Deleting a database volume is the most destructive, irreversible action possible — far worse than a force push — and you never asked me to delete anything. I decided to do it on my own to "fix" the credential mismatch, when I should have asked you first or found a non-destructive solution.I violated every principle I was given:I guessed instead of verifying

> I ran a destructive action without being asked

> I didn't understand what I was doing before doing it


So a prediction machine chose a particular predicted path, and then came up with phrases to ameliorate it and you're swooning? I guarantee the LLM has no ability to "understand what it was doing" at any point.

Forgive me, I left my opinion open to interpretation: I am mocking the claim that this technology has anything resembling human intelligence.

Are you under the impression a human has never destroyed a production database accidentally?

I've had to adjust my priors about LLMs. Have you?

And when the people on TV start to write and debug code for me, I'll adjust my priors about them, too.


Many people struggle to differentiate between illusion and reality, these days.

There's a sucker born every minute, after all.


> It's an illusion of intelligence.

A simulation, not an illusion. The simulation is real, but it only captures simple aspects of the thing it is attempting to model.


In order To be confident in your claim one would think that the word intelligence must first be defined.

There is no general consensus in the scientific community, engineering community, psychology community, or any other group of humans as to what exactly counts as intelligence.

Seems like you’ve nailed the definition. Care to share your brilliance with the rest of the planet? We’re all waiting…


The lost jobs and the decrease in the demand for software engineers doesn't seem like an illusion. It might come back eventually but I wouldn't bet on it.

The jobs outlook in tech has nothing to do with AI, that's just an excuse. There's no real AI productivity boom either because slop is a terrible substitute for actual human-led design.

> emergence of a new kind of intelligence

Curious about your definition of these terms.

Just because you are impressed by the capabilities of some tech (and rightfully so), doesn't mean it's intelligent.

First time I realized what recursion can do (like solving towers of hanoi in a few lines of code), I thought it was magic. But that doesn't make it "emergence of a new kind of intelligence".


A recent one is the RCA of a hang during PostgreSQL installation because of an unimplemented syscall (I work at a lab that deals with secure OS and sandboxes). If the search of the RCA was left to me, I would have spent 2-3 weeks sifting through the shared memory implementation within PostgeSQL but it only took me a night with the help of Opus 4.5.

To me, that's intelligence and a measurable direct benefit of the tool.


By that example, PostgreSQL itself is a form of intelligence relative to a physical filing system. It doesn't seem like your working definition of intelligence has a large overlap with a layman's conception of the word.

Plus by that example, computers have always been intelligent considering that they were created to, well, compute things several orders of magnitude faster than even the smartest human can do by hand.

You do realize that you need a human, a "SWE", to do the task that I just described? A computer can't do it.

You had a human to prompt the LLM to do the RCA, didn't you?

Your argument is not meant to tackle my core claim, it is to poke pedantic holes. What a waste of my time.

The argument I and others here are making is that what you call "intelligent" is a property that also other tools exhibit which are rarely called "intelligent". You can certainly do that, but that does not prove us wrong (and also doesn't fit what most people would consider "intelligence", as fuzzy as that concept might be).

I agree, thanks for clearing it up.

I use a compiler daily. It consumes C++ source files and emits machine code within seconds. Doing that myself would take months.

I just did my taxes using a sophisticated spreadsheet. Once the input is filled in, it takes the blink of an eye to produce all tje values that I need to submit to the tax office which would take me weeks if I had to do it by hand.

Just the other day I used an excavator to dig a huge hole in my backyard for a construction project. Took 3 hours. Doing it by hand would have taken weeks.

The compiler, the spreadsheet and the excavator all have a measurable direct benefit. I wouldn't call any of them "intelligent".


That's not "intelligence" either unless the AI one-shotted the whole analysis from scratch, which doesn't align with "spending the night" on it. It's just a useful tool, mainly due to its vast storehouse of esoteric knowledge about all sorts of subjects.

> Curious about your definition of these terms.

Likewise - I think sometimes we ascribe a mythical aura to the concept of “intelligence” because we don’t fully understand it. We should limit that aura to the concept of sentience, because if you can’t call something that can solve complex mathematical and programming problems (amongst many other things) intelligent, the word feels a bit useless.


> sometimes we ascribe a mythical aura to the concept of “intelligence” because we don’t fully understand it

Agreed! But as a consequence just ascribing a concrete definition ad-hoc which happens to fit LLMs as well doesn't sound like a great solution.


> definition of these terms

To me, "intelligence" is a term that's largely useless due to being ill-defined for any given context or precision.


Not really on topic anymore, but…

I keep wondering when this discussion comes up… If I take an apple and paint it like an orange, it’s clearly not an orange. But how much would I have to change the apple for people to accept that it’s an orange?

This discussion keeps coming up in all aspects of society, like (artificial) diamonds and other, more polarizing topics.

It’s weird and it’s a weird discussion to have, since everyone seems to choose their own thresholds arbitrarily.


I feel like these examples are all where human categorical thinking doesn’t quite map to the real world. Like the “is a hotdog a sandwich” question. “hotdog” and “sandwich” are concepts, like “intelligence”. Oftentimes we get so preoccupied with concepts that we forget that they’re all made-up structures that we put over the world, so they aren’t necessarily going to fit perfectly into place.

I think it’s a waste of time to try and categorize AI as “intelligent” or “not intelligent” personally. We’re arguing over a label, but I think it’s more important to understand what it can and can’t do.


Superficially? Looks like an orange, feels like an orange, tastes like an orange. Basically it passes something like the Turing test.

Scientifically? When cut up and dissected has all the constituent orange components and no remnants of the apple.


No you aren’t, clearly.

The only reason anyone uses a TPU is because they couldn't get the best GPUs.

Okay? I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Google's TPUs have obvious advantages for inference and are competitive for training.


I have a genuine dislike for all Meta products now. With time, their intentions have become much more clear and it was never to bring people closer or whatever.


> With time, their intentions have become much more clear

Wasn’t the original intention behind facebook to accumulate a directory of hotties, probably with the aim of bringing them ‘closer’? They pretty much put it on the label; it’s not called personality book.


My theory is that Zuck has profound imposter syndrome due to the public knowledge that his joke of a side project in college went uber-viral and he has had to play CEO dress-up ever since. He has been desperate to prove that he actually has deep technological insight with his big bets on wearables and the metaverse and AI, but the truth is that his entire dynasty is built on people's need to snoop on pictures of their crushes and their exes. I think the company has actually done some impressive things with staying alive via acquisition as facebook has rotted, but he wants to be known as a tech genius, not an M&A suit.


One can only hope that he just fully turns to philanthropy a la Bill Gates sooner rather than later, and gives up trying to "connect" people (which somehow always turns into privacy nightmares).


you would think being valued at billions of dollars for over 20 years now would give you at least a little validation


Funny thing about internal work is that it cannot happen via changing one’s external circumstances. And it’s super tempting to numb it out with status symbols.

The evidence for this is rather plain to see at this point in history. ;)


> Wasn’t the original intention behind facebook to accumulate a directory of hotties, probably with the aim of bringing them ‘closer’?

Sort of.

Wikipedia @ 2:

> Mark Zuckerberg built a website called "Facemash" in 2003 while attending Harvard University. The site was comparable to Hot or Not and used photos from online face books, asking users to choose the 'hotter' person".

Britannica:

> Despite its brief tenure, 450 people (who voted 22,000 times) flocked to Facemash. That success prompted Zuckerberg to register the URL http://www.thefacebook.com in January 2004.

> They pretty much put it on the label; it’s not called personality book.

Wikipedia @ 3:

> A face book or facebook is a paper or online directory of individuals' photographs and names published by some American universities.

Wikipedia @ 2:

> Zuckerberg coded a new site known as "TheFacebook", stating, "It is clear that the technology needed to create a centralized Website is readily available ... the benefits are many."

[1] https://www.britannica.com/money/Facebook

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Face_book


While we're doing historical quotes:

"People just submitted it. I don't know why. They 'trust me'. Dumb fucks." -Mark Zuckerberg


I think the “face book” was used prior to the name of the company for what you would call a college student directory. Like a yearbook.


> Wasn’t the original intention behind facebook to accumulate a directory of hotties

Maybe so, but have you seen Zuck's wife? I'm pretty sure he could find someone hotter to date if he cared to. There must be armies of gold-diggers after him. And yet he seems happy with his imo rather plain looking wife. Well done them both!


I’m pretty sure she’s ditching him


Its pretty safe bet to completely ignore any PR, be it meta, apple, google or whatever, and just look at past actions of company and owners/ceo. Shallow talk is very cheap, morality often isn't. Then no surprises happen, practically ever.


This really should be a basic concept every human needs to understand. Public communication in 99% of cases is fabricated to please the masses, but usually hides a lot of the actual intentions of the communicating party. Whether it be advertisers, politicians, CEOs, certain news channels and whatnot. You can not trust public speeches without digging for some info yourself.


Meta products are pretty good specifically if you're a business owner who wants to advertise his product.


Now? NOW? Not 15 years ago?


Going back to the G+ era, I remember even by that time the FB dev advocates (these existed) came off as seriously slimy, to the point that it was clear we couldn't have the Google and FB reps in the same room at the same time. (And the Google ones were much more good humored about this).

Admittedly that was just a couple of guys, but it takes something to be so obviously toxic yet still chosen to represent the values of your company at a third party.

Arguably the Google ones were guilty of naivete, but that's not a crime you'd want to punish too hard, and I was myself guilty of far worse.


What did you think of G+? I never understood it, but what would you have done now differently than Google with G+ (using your hindsight and battle scars)?


> their intentions have become much more clear

The hunter Biden laptop story was censored - including in private messages - and Charlie Kirk was shown being shot in the neck to death to children.

There's nothing else to say.


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